0:01
So good morning, everybody. And welcome to our fourth already negotiators master class. And this week, I believe that there have been a couple of you that were very quickly endeavoring to put into practice some of the the the pieces that we got last week I know. Even the week before Murali had some experience with some of the content herself, and told the story. Last week where we left off, I had gone over the negotiators one pager, and then Patrick, who I hope you’ll vote he will be coming in. He had a negotiation, I think later on that very same day. And I know Cynthia had had a meeting with grant grand tours later on that week. So I’m what I just just as we begin today, I’d love to hear from any of you any little story that you have any feedback, any experience with what you learned over the past week. If anything happened, I mean, if nothing happened, then no biggie, but just in the case, that you’ve got a story that’d be fantastic to hear. Because we all learn, we all learn. Good morning, Cynthia. Oh, wonderful.

1:48
Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. So I did use the one pager and it was for the Uncharted Korean. What I really liked was the guiding questions and helped me think I had a time for that infamous part of any interview. If Do you have any questions? So I was prepared that way. And it helped me to get you know, just more confident and not feeling so one sided in interview. I know we, you know, we’ll say Oh, you’re supposed to get it’s like mutual, and you see if they’re a good fit for you. But ultimately, you’re like, please pick me. So it alleviated some of that, and just really helped me to think through like I said, and then. Yeah, so I thought the sheet was really helpful. I’m looking at it now, in that preparation piece. Are you still waking up? I’m going to need coffee.

3:09
You better go get your coffee. Yeah, but thank you. Thank you so much. I think one of the because we spoke a little bit yesterday. And you had mentioned yesterday that you you were ready for that? Do you have any questions pop in? Then you asked a question that you felt like they didn’t expect? Can you tell us just a little bit about that?

3:36
Sure. Yeah. So I mean, you helped me with that, too, you know, just this, this question of are you the only decision makers or what is the decision making process? And so I think that helped me stand out. And also helped me realize that no, these two are not the only people making the decision. It was a team of eight. And I also followed that up with a question of how many applicants and how many are you choosing. And so that helps, like, helped me to understand what’s going to happen after the interview, and what that process really was, which alleviated a lot of stress as well. But I like that. I think that helped me stand out. I said, Thank you. And I was working with my husband as my teammates. So he was able, we were just able to be more unified in our approach. I think this if you’re doing negotiations with somebody else as well, just this one pager, really lended itself to having a conversation so that we could both be a team on the same page with the same goals.

4:45
Yeah, and that raises a point about team negotiating and that’s a whole nother step in some ways. And there are different roles that can be played by different people on The team. But one thing that I’ve heard, said, again, about teams, if you want to go fast, you go alone. If you want to go far, you go in a team. So I was very happy to hear that you went in there as a team into the negotiation, because that that it takes longer to prepare, right? To get you both on the same page so that you can be on the same page when you’re when you’re in with others. But again, that part of that help set you up. It’s like,

5:41
yes, and you see, like, I’m like, I hadn’t even thought about that, that part until now. Yeah, about how we did use this page. And we were going in together, and we had the discussion. And he was able to ask a different question that was on the sheet. So it wasn’t just me asking all the questions, and we had outlined them ahead of time. So that just all created a lot more a greater sense of confidence. And just ease, so thank you.

6:16
And, and also, by the sounds of it, you also got more information from them, that is helpful to you. And that’s, that’s just here, I’m just underscoring that, that an essential part of negotiating is the process of discovering more information, because we make better decisions, we understand the environment and our context, and what the options are, as we understand more. So you, you know, utilizing whatever means guiding questions, labels, mirroring any of these things, help us gather more information about, you know, that is, you know, kind of more on the emotional side, but also just we have to gather information about the bigger picture, especially when we when we’re dealing with our businesses and things like that. So thank you. Fantastic, you know, I hope you don’t mind me bouncing off use just to bring in some of the other bits and pieces about, about negotiation that are relevant, I think, for everybody to hear. Any any. Thank you, Cynthia. Yeah, you go get your coffee. She’ll know. Yeah. Anybody else have any experience during the week that they want to share? It was a quiet week.

7:46
I, well, I have a bit to share, then nothing, nothing big? Well, for me, my schedule is very demanding. And there was no room for negotiation in terms of work, or you know, nothing major. But I really wanted to accomplish this one pager as homework and and so use our, my, my family as the guinea pig. And so I asked my husband, there was this. There’s this a couple of seminars that I wanted to go this weekend, and I knew that he had previous appointment. And it’s, he already set his mind not to go with me. But you know, for the sake of this homework, I said, I’m gonna try I have to try anyway, you know, so, um, I called him at work. And then so I just went by this, you know, I just went by this, just for the sake of bother him, you know, I don’t want to bother his schedule, because, you know, I demand from him too much to watch, right? I just want to try. And then so my goal is to have him come with me even just a day, you know, not two days, just even just a day. And but that Saturday, I know he has a golf tournament or golf something, you know, he with his friends. So, but I started when I know, you’re gonna think I’m nagging you and selfish and I’m not, you know, I’m not. I don’t pay attention to what you said. But I don’t. And then but I have, oh, yeah. And then. And then I was quiet. And then he said, I was hoping that you’re not he’ll say, Oh, no, no, not really. He said Why? So my question was why? Maybe he’s not used to my question re asking him things like that, you know, very diplomatic. He’s like, Why? What’s going on? And then? So then I said, Oh, I have a request. And it’s about this Saturday. And then. So he said, Can I go at 1pm instead of morning? And then I said, Well, it seems like your schedule your golf is ready, or is it can be negotiated. And there’s a room for cancellation. And then then, you know, he, he said, it depends. Let me see. And then I just said, Is that a yes, you’re going to spend with me on Saturday? And then he said, Why? And then I said, it’s just because, you know, I, there is this very important lecture that I respected, and I want, it’s a lecture about a couple, and I want you and I to listen to him. And I would feel special. And then when he says, Let me see, usually it means yes. And then I said, Is that a yes? And then he said, Yes. That was an expected I was just one thing. I just wanted to accomplish your homework, but then, you know, I, if

11:28
you made it, it was, you’ve got another unexpected response.

11:34
Yeah, it was unexpected. I was just, yeah, he wasn’t. But you know, I, I, I came in with too much of my own concept, the preconception that he will say no, and that there was no room and that he has his own world. And, you know, but then, yeah, I guess, you know, we cannot assume too much, you know, in people’s mind. Yeah.

12:05
And that’s, I had one quote today that I don’t know whether I can find it really quickly, or I’ll get to it later on in the class, maybe that that responds to exactly that question early. I’m having a hard time finding it. So I’m just going to have to look for it later on. But it’s basically something like you know, not all way too often, we don’t really look for what is actually possible. we underestimate way too much. And let me see if I can find it. But anyway, I’m glad that that homework, you worked on it, and there are a few things that I will help help to help you perhaps point out that you can tweak as you move forward. But excellent, because that’s we have to start with los even that seemed like quite a high stakes negotiation in a way. In a way you didn’t start small. So but yeah, even just again, over the dinner table and other little things, just practicing the mirroring and, and the the labels and things like that when the stakes are not high. So that when we do go into those moments, were more at ease with them uncomfortable with them. Yeah. And then stop, you know, putting on a chalkboard somewhere, you know, the little, little marks how many times you’ve used a mirror, how many times you’ve used a label, because you got to get to that 67 lace, right. Remember, I mentioned last week, anyway, that’s, you know, probably not a hard and fast number, but it gives you an idea that you can’t just do it once or twice. And and in fact, we this is this is our our emotional fitness that we’re building. Yeah. Thank you, Marilee. Thanks for sharing that with us. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s fantastic. Yeah. Good morning, Raquel. Yeah, yeah. I’m sorry, I missed the class last time, but they, I took it in your video. I saw the video which is great the day it’s very, very adult of the busy adults made because we can go back to it in a very good way and I’m very in I went through it not enough time to make the homework written in a new case. But what I did is when I’ve seen these same, these negotiation skills that we have to make him Drum ceilings gold context laundry, I realized on I had very good negotiations along the time very good ones. But I failed Also in, in some very important ones. Because I didn’t think about them ahead in this way. Because you always think you You always make a plan. Even if you don’t write it, you always have in your head, the goal what you want how to do it, but these kind of these, or systematisation that you did, helped me in to see what the other sewing me that could be the that was the obstacle, and now I have the test. It is not that it was true or not. But it was their truth. It was their truth, their perception in that was in the middle of our negotiations. So I think this is a this season. Like, it’s it’s not like the how the science said very nicely the ghost making trigger, like, like, fulfill your own wishes. It is not, not in my vision ad and it’s not manipulative. It’s the opposite. Exactly. It standing in the in the arena of negotiation before it happens. So it is very interesting, because even physically, I was like feeling like when, when my head started to beat in that time, or when I was that sure of what to say, or when I got the attacks that that we the laundry list, I could have been ready, right to repeat, and they wouldn’t get into the middle of the negotiation. So I think it’s very valuable in there is another one that I liked very much. These killers, they deal killing a issues. Right? Usually in my area, it has to do with stereotypes, or governing phrases. Things have to do one way they cannot go in another way or, or stereotypes what women men or whatever. So the stereotypes that are here plays like the killers. They’re very interesting. Because they really are, they’re the essence of any negotiation. Because they bring the very narrow boundaries, you cannot talk about them they are not discover they aren’t on the ground, like in the eyes, right? These are the is the highest, the widest part of the ISIS. So I like it very much to God rate was very, very, very interesting to see how I fail. Some negotiations. Thank you. Thank you. so wonderful to hear your experience with that. And

18:50
I’m going to circle back around to one oblique question. with everybody later on, as you mentioned, the laundry list. And this is this one is going to be more for me, but later on. I’ll deal with that. But thank you. Thank you, Raquel. for that. systematisation Karen, this is a this is a compilation of a

19:15
I don’t know whether you call. I guess it’s a little bit like when summer is your this is my recipe of a negotiation. Yeah, thank you.

19:33
I mean, there are clearly there are pieces you go into any negotiate as class, you’ll see some of these elements in in in all of them, but none of it is is dramatically no framework in the background, I think just this case, Marilyn knows my my years of thinking certain thoughts. But yeah, there’s there’s a There’s a framework in here that I’ve built this around. And but I’ve also come across some of it has become important to me, because I know like, as you said, as you were introducing your experience this week, Raquel, that some things in negotiation you’ve done exceedingly? Well. I have, at the UN, I’ve managed to pull together groups of diplomats to the point where I could hand off that group of diplomats to a lead representative to the UN, who were willing then to take the draft resolution that was crafted and to take it into the General Assembly. And then, of course, as an NGO, I, you know, I can’t do anything. So of course, you have to work through the diplomats, that’s was a constant effort to negotiate, to understand their their circumstances to see what was valuable to them. But to get it to the point where that resolution was passed in the General Assembly. And if myself, and my team hadn’t worked on that, that resolution would never, it wouldn’t have happened. Did it save the world? Maybe not quite. But anyway, the point is, you know, I’ve had certain amounts of success with with negotiation, and I have desperately failed in other respects. And I have, that’s been part of my part of my journey, is to fill in the gaps with the pieces that I was not seeing, and that I was overlooking, and that did pertain to some of those things that you were referring to is and that Cynthia, right, you know, so there’s who else is Who else is part of this decision. And who is perhaps not in the room. And or the other piece, which is the deeper components, the unstated components, those that people are not going to talk about, but I didn’t ever I did not have the mindset to draw out what was actually important to the, to the negotiation being successful at that time. So part of what my passion is here is to help others see that, that there are some critical pieces to a successful negotiation, that can be optimal for all parties that we need to be to know to work on and to have the capacity to work on it. So that’s why I’m not just about Endor here is not just about, you know, a couple of phrases that you use and a couple of tactics and, and some logical strategic, and then, you know, just make sure that you get people to agree with you. But it’s it’s much, much deeper than that. Because I think, you know, as we’re, especially as we look at because I know all of you are people with a strong heart, you can call your heart centered spiritual, you’re concerned about, you know, global needs, the larger good, not just personal gain. So how do we not just be what was it? What was that phrase? You know, good guys come last? Wasn’t that a Wasn’t that a thing, a meme of sod, you know, good guys always lose the nice guys lose. Well, there is a way for the good guys to win. But there has to be some leadership involved. And there has to be some really strong clarity and and capacity to do that, because the the ones who will come in and stomp all over everybody, they have no bones, you know, they make no bones about doing that, and to have the fortitude, and a lot of it is the internal fortitude to be able to handle that

24:30
is a whole other skill set. And so that’s part of what I am looking at and wanting to help people build, because we desperately need the good guys to be the ones who are shaping the negotiations and the outcomes. Not just the bad guys. If you want to put a good guy bad guy Anyway, off my high horse here. Okay. So who else had an experience with this this week?

25:09
I did. But mine was so quickly on the heels of my class. I didn’t, I don’t think I really didn’t as effective job as I would have wished because I had to really go right into this meeting and not have it absorbed. But the thing that was really helpful was really clarifying what I wanted to get out of this meeting. And, and this was, it was a little bit touchy, because this is where, without going into too much detail, but but I started a an organization working with human trafficking. And because of COVID, we had to shift from an from an in person on, you know, like a live event, we had to shift to online, so then it’s working with someone with a whole different skill set. He, he ended up through our discussions, you know, getting totally inspired by the cause of human trafficking, he got just all wrapped up in the potential of what we were doing, and just shot it up to a very high level too quickly. And he kind of basically took over things which completely alienated and decimated the whole team that I built for three years. So it was kind of going into negotiation with him about the future, what we were going to do from now on. And I think what really helped me was having a more clear idea of what I wanted, what I wanted to come out of our discussion. And, and that was basically achieved it. Now I’ve got I’m leaving early today to go into a second meeting. So there’s so much going on. But I really felt the the laundry list, like I really started to think about all the criticisms he had, or the things that he did that made him feel like he was the best person to kind of take over everything. And so I really started to look at myself and that and the, you know, the things that he saw in me, so I kind of started with talking about those things, some of them he raised before I could raise them. So I had to come back and respond. Yeah, I’m above Um, so but but then kind of shifting to really, because I needed because what I needed is the outcome was for him to be able to accept kind of working under us as a, you know, like, under the objective instead of him taking control of it, because his taking control of it was really, really harmful to to the future. So he basically then kind of came in and and agreed that he could do that. So I was I was very glad about that. And this really helped it really helped me to kind of more structure, what I wanted out of it. And I think that’s kind of been the weak point for me in a lot of negotiations and a lot of discussions is not having a clear concept of what I want to get out of it. So this really helped to kind of tune my thinking before going into it.

27:56
Well, that sounds like kind of a major win in terms of a negotiate the outcome of the negotiation of your meeting last week.

28:06
Yeah, how much of a win will work come about Next, the kind of the next step. But it was it was really what I wanted for that meeting. And so I was very grateful for that.

28:20
Yeah, and one of the ways to direct the next phase is, again, to make sure that you any kind of an agreement is only as useful as the implementation of that agreement. So how questions are going to be very important for you to ask? So when when he makes a statement about something or other people make a statement? I’m just inserting a little bit of quick, you know, is she going into this meeting, I want to just throw something in there. While we’ve got a chance. But so then part of the quick, you know, whenever you get to something, even if he says something that sounds really great, make sure you ask well, how is that going to happen? You know, how can you make that happen? How are we meant to? How are we meant to do our pod how you’re going to do your pot? Because an agreement only lasts, you know, as well as your plan for implementation. So start to ask those hard questions.

29:15
The big challenge that it’s coming up is going to be the some of the some of the members of the team really don’t want to work with him, then they were really upset. So if if we continue to work with him how I can bridge that gap, so how I can negotiate with them to get them to come on board, and continue to work. Yeah, if you feel a part of it. So

29:38
yeah. And you might need to have a meeting with that team and go, you know, raise this issue precisely. Yeah. Yeah, that’s coming. Thank you so much. You’ve got Patrick exciting. Fantastic. Crew. Yeah. Anyone else? Big or small? Or seemingly big or small? I think Matt merrilees. She said it was just a little thing, but I don’t think it was a little thing. So yeah, anybody else? Otherwise we’ll move on into. Okay, so then let’s jump in. And the one the one piece that I was going to, I found that quote, and I often need help with my quotes that I had said that I would look for, Raquel was a quote by Chris Voss never be so short, something you want, that you wouldn’t be prepared to take something better. Many times in a negotiation, we go into the negotiation thinking down.

31:03
Right? Without even giving a chance that there can be even better outcomes than you could imagine.

31:17
Anyway, just saying open. This is part of, you know, what we have to do is to open our minds be more curious about possibilities, not just when we’re when we’re too specific goal oriented, then we get tunnel vision. When especially in a negotiation, when we’re exploring unknowns. Amazing things can happen, I mean, things that we don’t expect. So leave the possibility open, that there might be something better than you think is possible. And Marilee made some. She alluded to that in some ways to realize recognize she needed to let the other person have a mind. Even the ones we know. Yeah. Okay. So um, so I’m going to start and share my, I think I’m gonna mute you, I think Meryl I was hearing a voice in the background there. So I just muted you, you can always unmute yourself when you’re to jump in. So let me share my screen.

32:44
Here we go. So, again, I guess they’re here. Here we are. And our master class, here we go. Michael, I just wanted to reiterate, again, my goal is that but you’d be excited about what can come out of negotiations large and small. And that using the the negotiate as basics will help you lead. And, and and this is, you know, I use the term really, not just because I don’t like to use the term leader, leader and leadership in terms of positions as much as how we go about living our lives, that we lead our lives, we don’t just wait until something happens to us. But that we are directing our own lives as we uncover what it is that we want. As we test things out, as we explore. We don’t always know solidly everything even about ourselves. But still, nobody else but you. Nobody else but you have the option to really direct and lead your life. Now we’ve gone through already the approach the mindset, we keep going back to mindset issues, we’ll keep cycling back to that, that we’ve gone through the 10 skills. Last week, we looked a little bit more in depth at you know, the preparation part, and underscoring some of the I think I gave you a couple of mini maps just to reiterate some of the core skills. This week we’re going to be looking at mastering no and and how to use no and some of the other pieces in addressing difficult conversations. And next week, Prospect Theory perhaps we’ll already have dealt with it a little bit. And but we’ll get in we’ll look take a little bit of time to look at negotiating styles so that you know when you’re dealing with different people and Not only do you have your, your own style, and then you can see how that interacts with some other key styles. And there’s not a lot of them. And it’s it’s distilled down as to be as simple as possible. Because otherwise, it just gets so complex, it’s not useful. But the main point there is just to understand that other people focus on different aspects of, in a sense, they use, they respond to different parts of our brains more than others. And so, very often, I will keep coming back one way or another, to this basic concept of you know, that we have drivers. And some people are more focused on the survival bodily survival element, some are more concerned about the emotional side, some have a propensity to be more logical, even even negotiators will tend to be or one way or another. But we’ll get into the details of that next week. But this understanding all of our souls and of the reality of our brain, and not just my brain, but your brain. And every other human brain out there is a factor in what we’re dealing with, as we begin to to negotiate as we enter into negotiate negotiation. So last week, we did the the negotiation, one pager, and the mini maps. And all of that was good. And we’ve kind of gone over the homework for this week that you prepared your that you did. But all of you almost did. Anyway. So this week, we’re going to be looking at mastering no and difficult conversations, we’re still going to be looking at some of the mind matters and a few more than, you know, the mindset issues. And we’ll be looking at the minimaps. So back to, again, I want to look at negotiation again as a journey. But there’s a journey, you know, to difference. So, I just mentioned to somebody, what makes a great negotiator there to you. This is another way of looking at what makes it great crochet, there are probably many ways of saying what makes it great, great negotiator, but this is another one of them. And putting it very simply, you’ve got the lifting of the that you’re good at listening.

37:39
being good at listening can take emotional fortitude, because that can mean Has anybody got a chatterbox in their head? Or is it only me? And sometimes no 95%? No, maybe 99% of the time when we’re listening to somebody else. We’re also having these conversations in our own heads, right?

38:15
Sometimes we don’t hear much of what the other person is saying, because we’re so busy having our own conversation in our own heads. So part of what makes a good negotiator is really having that capacity to listen to hear the other side that takes practice. The other one is being confrontational. And I don’t mean confrontational here in terms of being aggressive and making somebody else do something that they don’t want to do. As much as it is having listened and having mirrored and having labeled and so that you understand better what is going on in the other, being able to help them see who they are in and that sense, confronting the other with themselves. That is not only insightful to them. But it shows that you are a person who is listening, who is hearing them who is unafraid to be present with them, who is unafraid to reflect who they are back to them.

39:50
Who has fortitude and I call them emotional fortitude for one to another word So

40:04
being confrontational, I’m not just backing away from saying anything that you might think they might not like.

40:16
But being the kind of person that they can rely on, that they can trust, negotiation, a good negotiator will create the environment that builds trust. Without trust, you can’t get into a collaborative relationship. Without a collaborative relationship, you can’t really negotiate good successful outcomes together. And we have to assume that you’re in the discussion in the first place. Because you’ve got something they need, and they’ve got something you need. When we need one another in that fundamental way, then what that means to be to have a successful negotiation has we had to build that trust? And how does somebody really trust somebody who will say yes, but they really mean no, or they not. But they’re not really all there? Wouldn’t you trust somebody who is there, even as you blow up at them, they’re still sitting there facing you sitting with you, willing to hear you out all the way through, and then they have the capacity to tell your story back to you until you can say, yes, you really heard me. That is somebody you can trust. That is somebody you can really build a relationship with. That is somebody that you can create outcomes, even to some of the most difficult challenges that you might be facing. So that’s the goal with this, this kind of great negotiator. Oh, and I added down the bottom, the most dangerous negotiation is the one that you don’t know that you’re in. Just, you know, how many times have our kids negotiate with us, and we didn’t, we all of a sudden get to the end of something, and we go, Whoa, whoa, whoa, I didn’t. I hadn’t, I didn’t realize that we’re going to get that one from me. But the most dangerous negotiation is the one that we don’t know that we’re in. So anyway, continuing on, I want to just to, again, remind you some of these elements, dig in a little bit about what negotiation is. And so going back to Carl Rogers, who, you know, back in the 70s, was when he really came, and I’ve mentioned him before, but one of the interesting things that he said is the curious paradox is that when I accept myself just as I am, then I can change. So if we’re into a negotiation in order to change the situation, that means we have to change our minds, it means maybe our counterpart needs to change their mind, to have the capacity to change. The parent curious paradox is that at some level, we need to be able to accept where we are. So you can see from that perspective, mirroring and describing, you know, our labeling our emotions, is helping to clarify who I am, where, where we are, or who they are, where they are, we’re providing that service to them. Because then, helping them get to that point where they say, yes, this is who I am, this is what I like, then that’s also when exactly when you change. Just going to there is just some noise. So that’s called Rogers. And the other thing that he said, just for perspective,

44:45
and, and part of the reason why I talk about him and you remember that back in the back in the second week, we did the empathy circles, because empathy is to me it’s kind of like the meta skill. So all of this specific six things that we do mirroring labeling, Mm hmm. And those things are really about creating an an empathic empathetic environment, or the one in which people can feel heard and say, and then be ready to move on to where we really need to get to sorting out and creating the solutions together. But we’ve got to do that. trust building first. And so part of it is, and I’ve mentioned that, what a good negotiator one of the the characteristics of a good negotiators that they’re curious, endlessly curious. So part of it is that we see people as wonderful, you know, people are just wonderful as sunsets if you let them be. And he, and then Carl Rogers went on to say, when I look at a sunset, I don’t find myself saying, you know, why don’t you soften the orange a bit on the right hand corner? You know, why don’t you change that to a purple, you just sit there and you and you appreciate it? So part of it is, is how do we appreciate that person, no matter how you could describe them in all kinds of ways. But at the heart of it, when we can still genuinely appreciate the other person and find that authentic appreciation of them. Do you think their spidey senses are going to pick up on that,

46:43
you know, when somebody is really disturbing, you know, doesn’t really disdains you or you know, really doesn’t respect you, you feel it in your gut, you know, we’re we’re human beings are quite sensitive creatures. So, and he sent this essential part of building trust, which is what a good negotiator does is to have the capacity to really respect the other person, as a person, they may have made bad decisions, they may have done horrible things. And yet, as a human being this still remarkable. And to find the capacity to at least have a little curiosity, enough respect in the moment, especially as your counterpart in developing solutions, it’s essential to respect them, that they have an only they can help you with the outcomes you really want. They are deserving of that respect. And building trust is really important. And so this is just one of those ways to say, Hey, you know, human beings are actually pretty phenomenal, but even the, you know, the worst case type of things. The other thing that I just wanted to remind you of, again, is that for optimal out ones, there is a process. And so the preparation, and we went over the one page last week, and I think most of you could begin to feel and experience how that preparatory work impacts you in the negotiation. So preparation is really important. The next step is usually when we first go into that negotiation, how we set that up, whether we go for a stroll, they go first. And there are many times reasons why to step back. And there are other reasons to go, you know, to step in, and to really, you know, step it up with that defusing the negative emotions, which is the whole concept of the laundry list. And, and my question to you I was I was going over this weekend, I was thinking to people like laundry list or develop today like a great, a great list better anyway, so maybe I’ll let you because I haven’t finally settled on a laundry list or a gripe, you know, our gripe sheet seems to work very nicely. I didn’t know whether everybody has a laundry list. I was beginning to wonder whether that was so 1900s that that a lot of people might not know what a laundry list is. When you had to label once upon a time to send stuff off to the laundry. Anybody ever been in a boarding school?

49:40
Have you had to have your own name on every one of your clothing items, otherwise you’d end up with somebody else’s laundry.

49:52
So you’d anyway a laundry list was also what you send to the laundry. But I that might be so old school that I don’t know whether or not Millennials know what a laundry list is, and whether a great gripe sheet and the consequent list might be a better idea. So anyway, maybe think about that. But the, the concept just is still the same here. So preparing that list, really. And then, in the cases, where you know that people do have all of those kinds of thoughts about you, preparing an exhaustive list, and getting in there first is really good. When you going into make a purchase, or to negotiate a salary, you don’t always want to be the first one to label the amount, the dollar amount, you actually really want to try to hold back and be the last one. So you know, there are there. There’s no one way of doing negotiation, because there’s so many different circumstances in life that we do that we negotiate in. But at least the first step is kind of when we go into that negotiation, how we enter the room, how we do our cold, you know, we, you look around the room, and just by the body language, who’s sitting where, what the dynamics are between the people, there’s, you know, you do that quick, cold read of what’s going on in the room, but to consciously pay attention to that. And then to connect that to your preparatory stuff. And even then you sometimes you have to change your your negotiation, your strategy that you’ve maybe figured out ahead of time you walk into the room and the rooms, not what you expect. So you have to change your plan on the fly, but your preparation is critical. And then your entry point into the room, even as you prepare to go into the room, that thing how you set your your own self up your own inner self up for that and get yourself ready and, and I’ve got that as your your three step prep. And we won’t look at that this week. We’ll get into that next week. But so you’ve kind of got your first step the in the room, which is step number two, then you’ve got your step number three, which is where it can be explosive. And it doesn’t always end up explosive, but it can be explosive. So part of what makes a good negotiator is also ready for things to go wrong. Or at least to go the way you didn’t expect them morally didn’t expect things to go the way they went. She was looking for an answer. She was hoping for an answer to a question that she didn’t get, whoops, it went somewhere else that is going to happen in almost every negotiation, something you didn’t expect. And that’s also why it’s really good to have a curious mind. So that when something that you didn’t expect happens, it’s kind of like, Well, yeah, I was expecting something that I didn’t expect. Anyway, but part of it is, is again, preparing yourself to be able to handle as optimally as you can, whatever comes at you. Because negotiations do go sideways. Even the best preparations, negotiations will go sideways, somebody has a bad day or somebody or you know, something happened at home, too to one of the negotiators one on one of your counterparts. And there’s no way on the face of the earth, they’re going to be happy about being in that room. And yet, it could be a deal. That means a lot to them and their their company. But you can’t you can’t undo that you can address it and have your tools, your skills, your little mini maps ready to address those things as best as possible.

54:03
So to understand them that there will be this special focus on really doing the mirroring the labeling the digging into asking guiding questions, if that’s the guiding questions tend to come in the collect more of a collaborative area, but really is uncovering the deeper unknowns trying to understand more about what you’re not seeing. And getting that information out as early and as quickly as possible, while at the same time building that trust. So this is a very important in this this step number three could is oftentimes many times that the most difficult piece and can be if if you’re stirring up emotions for some reason, that can be the most challenging part, but still sitting there and being able not running Even emotionally running away from the challenge of the moment is really important. building that fortitude, even just knowing that it could come prepares you for it amazingly. Then Then the collaborative stage, which is where you really not out what the agreement is your your follow you, you’re getting probably more to the nuts and bolts the house, how is this going to happen? Why are you really doing this so that I can align my values with your values. And that that is another critical and important step. But that’s more of a collaborative piece that comes on the foundation of having built the trust in in this, especially in this section, of course, you’ve got to be constantly building an increasing the trust levels all the way through the process. And getting to the point where you can make a commitment, you have reached the point with your counterpart, where that’s an agreement, and then you need to begin to clarify in this commitment and close, you need to begin to clarify what how your agreement is going to be implemented. What are the next steps? Where do you go from here, who’s going to communicate with whom next, when and where and at what, what rate? So, but understanding there is this basic flow in the in the process, that that we’re participating as negotiators, and just being ready for that. It is the human element of all of this, we are dealing with human beings. And this is an you know, and this is a process that you’ll see. And as you begin to be more familiar with this process and see it happening time. And again, that’ll It doesn’t mean that you’re the next one you go into is particularly any easier in negotiation, it just means you’re more familiar with the process, and you can trust it. A lot of this is not promising that it’s going to be all easy peasy. And you’re always you know, just in a with the flip of a switch, you’re going to get exactly what you want out the other end. No, it’s all about building relationships, but how to do that in a meaningful and productive and transformative way. That’s what this process is. So again, while your focus is on them, and I encourage you to really be the one and this is where the leadership component comes, you are the one to guide the negotiation to the extent that you really keep the focus on them. But you will still discover you in the course of doing that. Taking that stance by paying attention to them, drawing out their deeper emotions, helping them prepare, helping them feel listened to, so that then they can be prepared to shift and change. That’s a strategic focus on them. That really, really helps you better understand what you’re dealing with helps you influence and guide them through the process that you’re aware of that they may not be were aware of. They might be muddling their way through, not like any of us have ever muddled our way through a negotiation. Maybe, you know, they’re just modeling their way through a negotiation. But if you have this understanding of the process, you can guide them through the process.

58:43
That’s the leadership role.

58:46
And never to underestimate the power of kindness. Again, used well not just the kindness of it, because you don’t want to hurt their feelings. And so you say yes, when you mean no. But I mean, real kindness of helping them understand where they are and what’s even deep down inside them, but they may not be seen clearly. Yeah. So shaping and understanding that this whole meta tactic meta tactic of empathy is critical to the outcomes. So I’m going to today I’m going to get to the to the very soon to the issue of and I and I mentioned this one before about never be so sure of something that you want that you wouldn’t be prepared to take something better. I think that’s that’s a really important thing that sometimes we we totally underestimate others. We totally underestimate the largest circumstances. Sometimes people and I won, I guess one person was negotiating I might have mentioned this was coming in, and they knew that their bottom line, they were negotiating their salary, they were coming into a new company, they didn’t know much about the new company, they probably have done as much due diligence about the company as they could, and they could go on to glass door and see what the, you know, the the salary range was, but for the particular job that this person was applying for, they went in. And so then they the HR person asked them, so what, you know, what, what, what salary would, you know, are you thinking of him made up, you know, I don’t know, is probably about $90,000, or something like that, later on, he found out. And so that right there, that’s the baseline he had set for himself in that negotiation. Later on, he found out that that office was was prepared to go anywhere from 120 to 150,000.

1:01:05
He hadn’t found out enough about from from the people he was negotiating with, about what the real situation was. And he was so focused on his own what he thought were his own needs, and

1:01:22
that he was unable to take a better deal.

1:01:27
He was unable because he was so focused on what he thought was his best goal. That is doesn’t mean to say that every time you’ll go in, you’ll come out with something much better. But the point here is to keep your mind open, and to not have that tunnel vision. Anyway, um, so here today, I want to really look at mastering take another look at mastering No. And so reminder, again, I showed you this before, just really quickly, we’ve got our survival part, our kind of our more bodily functions, to really stay alive. We’ve got our social emotional component, and we’ve got a logical brain, the executive functions. Now, another way of looking at this is we’ve got primal urges, we need to feel safe, that is biological security. We need to feel in control. That’s our emotional security. And we need to have rational, certainty, clarity, you know, and that’s our intellectual security. So it’s what’s important to understand is that these are primal drives of me, you, me, the person, your spouse, your child, your, your whoever, whomever you’re negotiating with. So the understanding that they need those things, and so helping them, not, not helping not to trigger these things in any way. In fact, helping appease these are helping them feel like they’re in control, there are certain things that you can say, and that you can do that help them feel in control. Is that going to make them more feel like they can trust you? Or are they going to back off from that? If you’re undermining their sense of control, they’re going to be on alert. edgy. And I suspect you know that, that your that merrilees questions were so unusual, perhaps they your husband might not have heard you make those comments out loud to him. And so it was so different. His response was, Well, okay, so what are you really saying? What do you really say? So, he still hadn’t quite reached that point where he felt emotionally secure yet. So just understanding that you know, that when you hear a response, this they’re giving you feedback that he he’s still not quite he, he’s still a little unsettled there, you still not certain about what you’re really going about. He needs more information from you to feel confident that he can really respond to you genuinely. So again, just keep in mind that people have these primal urges. Now, you know, if you feel, that’s that’s also why it’s understood that when you go into negotiations, if you’re in a room that is very uncomfortable, and all, for want of a better word scary the environment can reduce the anxiety levels of the people, if you have a comfortable space, if it’s, if it’s a space where you’re negotiating with somebody that shows your respect for the other person, that will reduce their anxiety. So the physical messages you’re sending the whether or not you’re creating a biologically secure for the body area, whether you’re making statements and utilizing words that help them feel emotionally safe and secure, whether it’s rational and consistent. And therefore they can feel, you know, intellectually secure. These are all elements of the negotiation of a good negotiator. So again, I’m just putting this in the back of your mind as factors to understand that impact. The negotiation.

1:06:32
So looking at Yes, and looking at No, and burly, was very anxious to get a yes from her husband. And I want to urge him next time to go for a no, from her husband. Why? Yes, is a commitment and he and he was clearly having problems with committing to something he wasn’t quite sure what he was committing to yet. Right. And sometimes people, we haven’t given people enough information to know what sorry, I don’t I’m not I’m not? Well, I probably am. I don’t mean to be targeting you, Murali in terms of this is not bad. This is you did an amazing job. And it’s just that it gives me something to speak to in terms of a specific situation. It’s fine. So yes, is a commitment. And sometimes people don’t want to commit so quickly, until they really, really, really know what they’re committing to know, is protective of ourselves. It’s a protective action. So helping somebody say no, can be a very interesting backdoor way into having them still move in the direction that you want them to move in. So you know, and I put here people will nod their head to avoid conflict, so yes, doesn’t always mean yes. And I’ve gone Yes. Can mean yes, I hear you. Oh, yes, yes. Now go away. It can mean yes, I hear you and that and that, and that’s good. But it hasn’t meant Yes, I’m committed to it yet. So just getting somebody to say yes, is is it’s, it’s not kind of the endpoint, you have to take people through that journey. negotiation is a journey, going to starting off and, and working to do something different than what we’ve done before which a negotiation is all about is a journey. And we have to allow people the time to take that journey. So, uh, no. You know, even I guess even Daniel Pink said, asking why can lead to understanding but asking why not, can lead to breakthroughs. But let me get into part of what’s behind the, at a functional level at this at the drivers level. And Daniel Kahneman has done he got a Nobel Prize for this loss aversion and it’s just very simply clarifying that winning $1,000 or, or you know, or gaining $1,000 or not losing $1,000 I’m not equal. If you and I think this the example makes what I’m trying to say it’s because it’s kind of counterintuitive and and it doesn’t make sense mathematically. But in the human being, it makes sense. If If you lose $1,000 kind of emotionally when you Need to almost make 2000 back to compensate for, for the price, the emotional price of loss. And as human beings were more likely to move to make an effort to avoid loss, we’re more likely to make extra effort to avoid loss

1:10:26
than we are to make a similar gain. Loss impacts us more than gains gaining.

1:10:43
And so understanding that protecting ourselves from loss is really, it’s an acknowledgement of the reality of who we are as human beings. And so if you can help protect somebody else from loss, that that’s good, too. And know and understanding No, as a form of protection of you. Of that, or of them is important in an understanding this very, very fundamental human drive. So instead of going off to the Yes, when you go off to the No, by having no oriented questions, so every Yes, question can be re written as a no oriented question of some kind. And so this is the piece that I want you to look at this week, and to even just start to think about it and start to try it out in even in little ways. So for example, Murali perhaps could have said, would it be? Would it be ridiculous for me to ask that you cancel your game this week?

1:12:09
Would it be unreasonable for me to ask that you cancel this week? And to come back with that kind of and he may or may not answer the way you want. But still, then to rephrase, come back again, or to label to mirror what what his response was, what his response was, again, to use your mirrors, your labels, and then and the no oriented questions as a follow up?

1:12:43
Would it be horrible for you to this week to cancel your game of golf? Is it a bad idea that you cancel your game of golf this week? Again, always give them the time, give them time for the cascade of

1:13:11
all of those chemicals, and for it to sink in and to give us give people the time to do to do that emotional journey to take that emotional journey. So yeah, so almost every Yes, question can be structured as a no. So for example, in a restaurant, you can see a seat you prefer that. You might prefer a booth, or you might prefer a table near a window or something. Maybe they’ve got part of the restaurant closed off because they don’t want to open it all up yet. And they don’t want to have the the waitresses, you know, doing the long journey into the backend? Who knows. So instead of saying, is it okay, if we sit in the reserved section of the restaurant? Just rephrase it as would it be horrible if we sat there? The point is just this week to practice just turning around any question and turning it into

1:14:22
looking for a novel. Try it out. Just see how it goes.

1:14:30
The first time you you, you’re you. You’ll be asking one of the kids or your last your spouse or you’ll ask somebody in the office, would you you know, you’d be looking for the Yes. And then you’ll say Oh, oh, okay, I missed that chance. Okay, okay. So then you’ll just start to catch yourself. But try to think in terms of rephrasing your questions as know in search being in search of know if somebody hasn’t, you know, if you’re needing Get a response by email and they just haven’t been answering your emails, then a good one is have you given up on? You know, have you given up on our deal? Or have you given up on on what we’re doing whatever it is, sometimes we just need to hear from other people. And it’s just communication, emails get lost whatever it is, but just ask a question that you would want them to answer No, to? preferably?

1:15:29
That’s the beauty of No, we’re just going to look for a moment just at

1:15:36
know a little bit more. It’s it’s a skill that you sharpen. When you say no, you know, especially if you if you’re at a stage where you’re willing to say no to say to somebody, don’t hem and haw. Don’t delay dancing. Yeah, well, I I’m sorry, but no, just saying no. I’m sorry, I can’t right now. Or I’m happy to do it. But how do you want me to prioritize that?

1:16:14
You know, if you and I’m assuming that you’re going to say no, for a good reason, I trust each one of you would say that kind of thing for a good reason. So, you know, if somebody pushes back doesn’t is not respecting your stance, then they may not be fully respecting you if they’re your friend, or maybe they’re not your really your friend. Or maybe it indicates that there’s a little bit more work to be done with cultivating that are finding out more of what their priorities really are, etc, etc. But the point is, you don’t have to cave, what you might have to do is go back to the drawing board of negotiation and pull out one of those other tools. If they can’t respond to you the you know, and respect your know, then Anyway, you get you get the choice at that stage as to how to proceed in the past may may know may have been hard because you didn’t learn to advocate for yourself. It might be because you want to be able to say yes to help out. It may be that you don’t want to look incompetent. Does anybody ever said yes, even though you don’t really know how to do it, but you’re willing to work it out? I mean, there’s all kinds of reasons why we do why we do say yes, instead of No. Sometimes it’s because you might not have valued growth and development of appearing knowledgeable. And that’s just, you know, again, values. So I just these are not be all and end all things I just wanted to go over this little laundry list of reasons why. The point, the point here is we say we don’t want to say no for all kinds of reasons. But understanding that no is a form of self care is important. Sometimes we need to say no, because we do need to rest and recharge. If you don’t have a healthy body, you ain’t going to be any good for inmy body, any other body. Sometimes the ask that somebody else’s making is not aligned with your goals. You still say yes. But

1:18:44
you know. So being able to say no, is important to protect yourself or your organization?

1:18:56
Just saying yes, because it’s a kind thing to do? Or it seems like it is the good thing to do is not necessarily so you have to understand the implications and the ramifications of the ask. Sometimes somebody is going to ask you to go outside the boundaries within which you feel comfortable. It’s important to feel comfortable saying no. And so, again, that takes a little bit of practice. One of the ways to firm up your commitment to a no can be to ask yourself some of these questions. Well, yes, prevent me from focusing on something more important. I got to still have enough time to do what I need to do.

1:19:44
does what I’m saying yes to align with my goals. ask yourself that question. And if it doesn’t align with your goals then say no feel good

1:20:03
about saying no, this is self care this is self protect. If another organization is asking you to do something, it might be nice to do in the big picture. It might be wonderful to do. But is it aligned with your organization’s goals? Or is it going to distract teams of people from their work for a long time, you’re going to also probably have to ask yourself, Are you clear about your goals and your values? If not, that maybe is some time that you might want to pay attention to? Will Yes, burn me out or deplete my source my resources? That could be just my own personal energy levels? Or it could be financial resources, it could be people resources, be careful about what you say yes to when am I more like this? Is this is a good one? When am I more likely to say yes. The chances are, you’re more likely to say yes, just before lunch or just before dinner. When you’re running out of energy, it’s harder to take a stand when you’re when your fuel tank is on on low. And especially near the end of the day. One of her one of somebody that I know who teaches decision making, I love those she gave, you know, there there have been studies done of judges, when they are likely to more likely to allow a person who’s who’s going up for parole to be allowed out for parole, or rejected. Remembering that to allow somebody out for parole, the judge has to weigh and measure, you know, many more things. It’s much easier in this case for him to just say no, you’re not going out for parole, just sustain the status quo. That’s not that’s not a hard decision. A harder decision is is it still safe has the person you know really done a good job, yes. Something like almost 90% of the people who are allowed out for parole out within the first, you know, the first 45 minutes first thing in the morning and right after lunch, and then it’s downhill from there. The point of that is decision, we kind of have a certain amount of decisions that we in certain number of decisions we can make in a day. We’ve kind of got a decision. quota. Be aware that you have your own decisions quota, and other people have their decisions quota. And if it’s more requires more complex thinking, then don’t don’t do that kind of thinking right before lunch or right at the end of the day. So therefore, schedule your meetings, your important meetings first thing in the morning, or right after lunch. Anyway, that’s that’s that’s a little bit of a sideline. But but it’s these are things to know that when you’re more likely to say yes. And so you know, if it’s right before dinner, and somebody comes and asks you something, then ahead of time, think okay, if somebody asked me something important, if it’s not important, don’t worry about it. But if it is important that they and they come to you right before dinner or you know right before lunch, make it up, make it a point that you’ll say I’ll give you I’ll ask, I’ll have my answer after lunch or I’ll have my answer for you tomorrow, postpone it, if it’s an important decision. Know that about yourself. So a lot of this, like the one pager that I gave you last week is preparation thinking about this in advance, knowing yourself and setting yourself up with a plan of action. That alone does amazingly useful things helpful things for you. When you’re dealing with when you’re dealing with no. Nevertheless, always express gratitude for the offer and where possible, all you know offer alternatives. Again, a lot of it is even in those moments, just be authentic. Don’t be afraid to say no. No is your friend

1:24:43
I want you to know and no is your friend. I need to tell myself this a lot as well. I i’ve been too much of a yes person for too many years as well. But it’s a muscle and we have to learn how to use it in all of the different situations. Remember the first week I went over the four main areas, how you deal with authority, how you deal with your peers, how you deal with those who are your, you know, your, on your teams, who you’re responsible for, and those who you’re Who are your loved ones. And we do need to get that strength and capacity in each of those areas. And just because you’re good in one doesn’t make you good than the other. So, so because we’ve we have patterns that we built up over the years. But again, strive to be authentic and to be clear. And so when you do say yes, something you don’t want, that you don’t to remember. And this was he’s this, he’s an interesting guy, James altucher. But it says, when you do say yes to something you don’t want to remember that you hate. What if you don’t want to do it? Usually you hate what it is that you’re going to end up doing. you resent the person who asked you? And in some ways you’re going to hurt yourself. That’s when you say yes to something you didn’t want to just remember it. As you’re saying yes. And they’ll say, Oh, yes, well, maybe Actually no.

1:26:21
Oh, that’s meant to be create. No, is also how we create time. That’s how we reclaim time. Because usually, when you say yes to somebody, what are they asking for?

1:26:42
Asking you to do something, and that takes up your time. So one of the ways to get time back? Another little piece about saying no? is how you phrase it, how you how you frame it? This is the emotional framing piece again.

1:27:02
Do you say I don’t what do you say I can’t? Which one is the more

1:27:09
self affirming? Which one? Is the more the stronger version? Candace? I don’t

1:27:20
think which one is Yeah, which one is which one is going to be allow you to be more clear about doing it or not doing it? I can’t, or I don’t know which one, maybe another freight way of phrasing it. Which one?

1:27:45
You know, in with a parent, you have the opportunity of the dialogue. Okay, because you can ask more questions what it’s behind? How can I help you? How can we help you go three door getting to this part of the assessing? Now the Gumby killers?

1:28:12
Right. So when when Yeah. So when you’re looking to explore more? I can’t can I? I can’t. I can’t can. Okay. That’s That’s a good one. Saying I can’t. But when you when you’re thinking about more, I was thinking about if you’re going if you’re wanting to stand your ground. You want to wanting to be clear. Is I can’t something as I guess I see that. I don’t I just I don’t do that. As opposed to I can’t. One it is seems to me to be emotionally less of a strong stance. For me personally, if I, if I’m clarify that this is something that I don’t do, if I don’t do it, I mean, or if that’s my value, then it’s it’s clear. If I can’t that does say Well, sometimes I can’t sometimes I will sometimes I want I I can’t, but it could be because somebody else is asking me not to this this doubt in there, which is I think what you were pointing to Raquel, when when you said I can’t it opens up more dialogue and it does because that that then there are more questions there. And so that would actually the if you find yourself using icons rather than I don’t, then it means there’s still something unsettled. You’re saying no, but it’s not settled yet.

1:29:58
If you don’t do that, if that’s just something that you don’t do, is there any doubt about that? That’s a clear response.

1:30:13
So if you are wanting to leave the doorways open, you can say I can’t, I can’t do that now, or I can’t do that, you know today. And then you can open that up. But if you want to make a very clear statement to somebody, and this is just not where you’re going to go, if this is one of your values, if this is one of you, you’re you’re clear

1:30:39
boundaries. Then make that clear to the other person by saying I don’t rather than I can’t.

1:30:49
So if you want clarity, say I don’t, when you’re ready to negotiate further, say I can’t, and then give you a conditions and then negotiate those conditions. Again, how to plan, plan, how to act in advance, don’t just think it through, but really almost make yourself a 123 step, write things down, write down your goal I had as last week, I said, write down your goal and take it in into the room with you. You’re probably not going to hold up your goal and show your counterpart here the goal that you wrote down, but that’s just again, a way of solidifying in your mind and making your commitment to yourself about what you where you’re, where you’re going. And your baselines. So that’s that was just a little bit about going over. No, the main point here was to practice. Where was it? somewhere in here, I had it somewhere. What I was wanting, yeah. Anyway, I can’t find it what I was looking for. But anyway, the main point is just is to really practice this week to think of questions that you can ask that,

1:32:16
that help you Where is it? No, that’s not it. I just want to

1:32:26
anyway, just to flip around your your Yes, questions into no questions, that’s your home, your main homework for this week, although I also do have for you, and, and I’m still going to go into some other things. But I do have for you a gripe sheet that I you know, your laundry list to write, I want you to practice writing out your laundry lists, because it’s just a matter of writing them all out, to practice doing it. To imagine what the other person

1:33:09
to imagine what the other person would dare think about you. Right? Wrong. accurate, inaccurate, true or false. It doesn’t matter.

1:33:26
It could be as Raquel was saying earlier, it could be to do with stereotypes. It could be to do with their experience in the past, but just get good at writing out all of the horrible things that you think other people might be bringing into the discussion with them. As you as they talk with you. For Cynthia it might be might be in another instance where you’re going in for a grant what would they think about? What is their what could their attitude towards NGOs nonprofits be? What what what are their biggest worries and concerns their fears about you and your ability to perform and to make good use of their money?

1:34:21
What what what are you know, even unreasonable things they might be thinking?

1:34:29
Because there’s a good chance they have thought about those things, and maybe even are thinking about those things. That’s the whole point of the great list. Not leaving unsaid things unsaid. Getting them out. I’m going to stop here for a moment and and allow me to stop putting you to sleep. I will get back to some mini maps in a little bit and show how that you know that will part of what will be helpful to you To make sure that you do, practice writing out your gripe sheets, your laundry list. That’s it, it really is good to do and then for you to get comfortable with articulating, saying out loud, I know or I imagined, or you must feel. But I’m really just here to try to get the best deal at whatever cost, and that I don’t care about your situation, your expenses, your any things. I know that that. Or, I understand that you would distrust a salesperson, whatever it is, you know, the whole the whole gamut of things that you can imagine and get used to saying them out loud. Because I think that was one of the things that that Patrick said in the first week, said, Yeah, I don’t know whether I want to say those things that sound like self fulfilling prophecies. But understanding more that these are the things they’re thinking about anyway. So having the emotional fortitude, the courage to say them out loud. That is not for the faint of heart Murli.

1:36:45
Yes. I have a question, Karen. In cases where our the negotiator are negotiating the partner, or the people we’re negotiating with, they have mastered the art of saying no. And so would this laundry list? Would this be a good counter to it? Or, you know, because assuming that they’re also trained to be good negotiators, and they, you know, they have already mastered it. So what do we do? Like, as you know, when we’re negotiating with masters, and they said, No, I don’t do this. I don’t we can’t do this. So would the laundry list be a good counter to it?

1:37:36
Actually, all of them are still, if you know that they’re okay. But there’s lots of ways to answer this question. But number one, I’ll start with, they are still human beings. Even master negotiators appreciate being understood. Even a master negotiator. And they’re all different kinds of negotiators, some who, who do approach things more from the point of view of really deeply understanding, and others who are there to browbeat you into submission. So there are there’s not just one kind of negotiator out there. And they are still going to value being understood, they will appreciate even if they see what you’re doing, that you are hearing them that you are exploring more, you know, I hear you saying I you know, it sounds like you don’t want to, to budge on this. But if you’ve been able to pick up on anything else in the conversation, because usually there’s going to be something else in the conversation. If there’s any other that it sounds like perhaps you know, you’ve got some room to move on. x, y, z, we’d have to come up with something a little bit more solid to, to fully answer that. But utilizing your, you know, your mirrors and or your labels. And coming back with it sounds like it sounds like you’re, you’re you’re you don’t want to do this. But I will also hearing if you have to report something else before if you’ve been listening. And so that’s where you go into a room, you do your cold rate, you read the whole room. And that might even be an instance where maybe there’s two other people in the room. I don’t know, you know, I’m making this up too, because it’s we don’t have a specific situation. I’m hearing you’re very clear about this, but your counterpart, your your, you know, I’m curious about your other job in the room. Or I’m wondering if Is there anybody else who’s going to be involved in this decision? You know, is this or have they already made up their mind

1:40:04
Because you’re you’re you gave me a particular situation where you you, just because somebody is a master negotiator doesn’t mean to say they’re going to come in and say no. That’s a master note naysayer. And that might be somebody as default. But it doesn’t mean that that’s really their bottom line. So that’s your chance to start and really use your Yes. If If you feel that that person’s got if you’re cold read is that they are making assumptions about you. According to any of your mom, your your laundry list, that would be a great place for your laundry list. Say, I understand you know, you don’t you you’ve had a bad experience with somebody like maybe four or a you don’t you, don’t you, I haven’t shown you that, that I know how to use money for a project really optimally. What whatever your laundry list is, yes, go through and spit them all out. One little hint, start with, prioritize them start with number two. And end with number one, but I’ll get to that later. But it would be a good place, but you still need to do the work of your mirroring is, you know, making sure that you’re getting hearing what they’re saying. Because right there, you want to start and understand what is really motivating that note if they’ve given you, if you if they just come out? No, they hardly even know what you’re saying. Then that’s just a knee jerk response.

1:41:58
How many times have your kids not believed you when you said no? How many times did they question you? Anybody get any kids that have done that? You say no. And then they come back with another question. And then they come back with another question. And then they come back. It’s effective, right?

1:42:23
You don’t have to take somebody else’s No, especially when you can’t, when there is no sound reason for the know if you know them some unreasonable know if it’s an unfortunate out? No. So again, this comes back to your emotional fortitude, and having the willingness to step up and say, Well, I heard you say know pretty quickly, but I’m wondering, XYZ, whatever it is. And try to, you know, again, to have picked up on something that they’ve said earlier, or called read from the room, or something that you know about them because of your preparatory thinking.

1:43:11
For your laundry list, make use of those. Yeah. Does that?

1:43:19
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s just to remember that negotiation is not it’s not an absolute formula. It’s exploratory. It’s all exploratory. You’re extracting, you’re finding you’re discovering you’re exploring to get new information, so that you can work better together. And some people won’t be ready to easily divulge

1:43:50
because maybe nobody’s asked the most questions before that can make it fun for them and for you. Any other questions? Camilo.

1:44:13
I shouldn’t be thinking about how to say no

1:44:17
application what you just said, but I have no questions

1:44:24
or even right there, would it be crazy for me to to not have to do not have a question. Anyway, even just say a practicing turning Yeah. Practicing turning it into a no is a good idea. It was simple. I mean,

1:44:47
I was saying thinking in the mediation with couples, this is a very, this is the know, in the respect of the knowing is a very, very good tool to ask thing which knows they will respect of the other turning to boundary, a very healthy boundary.

1:45:19
Right. Understand, you’re saying and understanding one another’s boundaries.

1:45:25
Is that in understanding a yes, if? Because sometimes the know is an automatic response of an emotion in have suffered emotion or experience. But if you you ask them to explain that no. Then it gets clarity if it’s a real No, that is profound and it has to be respected, or is a no of power or war. So I think it’s very interesting to try to switch our homework, it’s a it’s not easy because it’s to switch the way of thinking into another cognitive tool. Different.

1:46:23
And part of the intent there is just so that we, we don’t have to be, quote unquote afraid of no, but we can embrace it and appreciate it, and better utilize it ourselves. Now, Cynthia, is it horrible that I don’t have a question? It is not horrible, Cynthia. No, not at all. Thank you.

1:47:04
Fantastic. So we don’t have much time left, I do want to go into just a couple of and some of these, maybe I have to make some of these little

1:47:19
PDFs available for you. But just before we

1:47:30
leave out, so one of the many little mini maps that I just tried to make put them into kind of a simple recipe almost for certain situations. So for example, a making making an ask, asking for something so and the idea behind the mini map concept is just to give you basic guidelines to work with in the beginning, but as you start to be more comfortable with the skills and the flow and how each of these can work with one another. You know, it’s like as you become a master in that in the in the in the kitchen and master chef, you don’t go to the recipe book, you might the first time to get an idea of what are the what are some ideas for some ingredients, and then you make it the way the recipe is the first time and then that might be the last time you look at the recipe because then you start to know how you want to make it taste with all of its flavor and your kitchen than the people that you were working with and serving dinner to same thing with these this is these are beginning points and give you an idea. So you’ve got on on the kind of a mental mindset side number one what you know if you know that you’re going into a negotiation of some kind and you know the other person is going to be asking you for something. Do your your brake sheet and your labels I’ve called a great sheet then well real quick. Who votes for laundry list and who votes for bright sheet?

1:49:04
I I need to help here. Any any quick thoughts on that one? laundry list or grocery laundry list? spreadsheet? Okay, so I had a few more gripes.

1:49:25
Oh, we can’t see faimah I can’t quite see you. You’re flickering. But um, yeah, so great. It sounds like grape grape sheet rather than laundry list laundry list work too. But yeah, I wasn’t quite settled with it. Thank you. So back to. So prepare your list. And then you also want to practice you know oriented questions. Your marriage And your labels, because that’s the way you’re going to explore, you’re going to uncover what is going on, you’re going to discover more, even you, especially if you’re going to be the one making the ask, you really do want to prepare with your gripe sheet, you do really do want to explore more from them. And then you want to make the Ask with labels, and then you want to be silent. So this is just a sample here. So you could prepare by saying, this is going to sound unfair, or, you know, if this was to your kids, it may may seem like your mom and dad or your boss, we don’t have it together and we’re confused. Or you’re going to think that we’re selfish, we’re wanting something for nothing. I mean, it really just depends on what your what your environment is the gripe sheet, but get get good with say, you know, with saying out loud, the things that you know, the complaints that you know, that they have, I know you think your mom’s the worst mom on the face of the earth, that I never that I’m unfair, I send you to bed before you should know. And that I don’t care about you. I know that you that you don’t see that I let you do anything that you want ever. Their words, their phrases, so that they as they listen to that they feel heard. And the interesting thing is by stating a negative out loud, it diffuses the negative emotion stating On the contrary, just to pay just to be aware of this, stating a positive out loud, tends to affirm the positive. So take advantage of the fact that when you state a negative out loud, it kind of takes the wind out of its sails.

1:52:08
It takes the sting out it loses its power. And that’s why it’s good for you to be exhaustive about the list, because the ones that you don’t mention,

1:52:24
they’re still going to be thinking until they’re addressed. And it might only be one or two compared to the other 12

1:52:36
or one compared to the other five. But that can also be hanging up in progress.

1:52:46
So you could say something like, what would you be against me sharing what I think would be the best thing for you to do? After you’ve diffused a lot of the negative so then then you can say would it would you be against me sharing what I think that would be good for you. Some number 123 or four or, or feisty daughter number three or whatever it is. And then and then when you get to the aspin asked with labels. So it could be something like this. And this is just another example, what I’m about to ask is probably going to be a difficult pill to swallow because it’s going to mean you’re going to have to give up something. Now you might not be asking them to give up something or you might be asking them to give up a little bit of their time. Or you might be asking them to contribute to something which for them is a loss because they’re gonna lose their game time or whatever. But again, ask with labels and then go into your silence. And allow that’s an I again, I call it vital silence because it’s, that’s where good stuff happens. That’s when movement happens. So need to keep practicing until it doesn’t feel awkward. As you defuse negative emotions, you’re actually enhancing trust. So again, remember that this is an emotional journey and allow people time to make that journey. Another one that you another one quick one. I’ll and I’ll just leave you with an did I go over this one last week asking for directions. Now, again, mini map, okay. You might be you could be out somewhere, you lose. You know, you don’t know where you going. You might be at a museum and you know the person standing there right To tell you about the Renoir, you’re worried about lunch. They don’t want to talk tell you where that the cafe is, you know, that’s not what they’re interested in doing. They’re there to tell you about the art. So, again, this is one of those things, I’m sorry, you’re going up to the person. They don’t want to tell you where the restaurant is. They want to tell you all about the art. I’m sorry. What you’re doing there is you’re getting them ready. For not good news, the minute if some stranger comes up to you and says, I’m sorry, what do you ever think? Oh, okay. So you’re getting ready to pause? I know it’s not your job job to give directions, or make recommendations depending on what it is. Or, you know, using the laundry list approach, I know it’s not your job to give directions to some bozo who’s lost because they haven’t taken the time to map out their own way. But can you tell me where the the cafe’s people don’t always want to give you directions, right? When you see a stranger coming up with a map in the hand, do you want to walk around them or, or help them out. I mean, sometimes sometimes you want to help them out. But sometimes you’re you’re busy, you don’t always want to help them out. This, again, just helps make that even that simple, little relationship, much more fun, and engaging and meaningful to that person. But you made the effort to call yourself a bozo or whatever, however, you might, you know, describe yourself to show that you understand their frustration. Already, there’s so much more willing to help you, most people are willing to help one another in actual fact. But if you, you have just through that very short interchange shown that you understand them what they’re feeling,

1:57:23
it brings the relationship even that quick, short engagement to whole nother level. So this is again, just another way.

1:57:35
Even in very short encounters, you can build unusual levels of trust, and engagement by simply really being there. And having anticipated their feelings and their response to the best that you can of course, it makes a difference. I want you to test it out. You can even try it on the way to the to the UN next merrily Oh grace. Well Camilo, when you’re when you next time you go

1:58:19
to the airport, just test the stuff out with with people. And by doing it this way, they’re not going to resent you. They’re going to be happy to meet you.

1:58:34
practice getting good at these little things. Because this is how you get your skills honed a little bit in low stakes encounters. So by the time you get into those higher stakes encounters, you are more prepared, and it is starting to become natural to you. So homework, practice making your list your gripe sheet, I can put up one for you. But all it is is a list of and then maybe it’s got some comments on it. But really all it is is a blank piece of paper to make a list on and don’t be afraid to make a long list and then practice saying out loud how you would voice their concerns. You must think I’m and that was one actually that was one thing. Oh really quickly. I realized I did not. Yeah. When you when you do it. The one thing that I don’t want you to not I don’t want you to do Don’t say Don’t say I don’t want you to think I’m a jerk for asking you Oh Blah, blah, blah, blah, say you must think I’m you’re probably going to think that I’m don’t take away from them by saying, I don’t want you to think that I am. Just remember, don’t take it away from them. That’s why I want you to practice out loud, you’re probably going to think that I am, you will think that I am, I imagine you are thinking she’s a jerk, be unafraid of the negative reaction. Because it builds rapport, much faster. This whole approach, and I’ll close out with this is not just about common ground, and feeling nice that we, you know, I come from Australia, and you come from Australia, and so therefore, you know, we’re good buddies. But it’s really about being fearless in our engagement with the other person for who they are, where they are. at every level, above ground and below ground, the whole person, and having that emotional fortitude, that allows us to sit and be there with them through all the challenges, the bits and pieces of the other person. So homework practice here, turning Yes. Questions into No, and get good at writing your grapes, fill out a gripe sheet and get good at turning them into, you’re probably gonna think I’m crazy, you’re probably going to think I just, I’m just another one of these selfish people who want to get something for nothing.

2:01:45
be blunt, and practice saying it out loud. whether it’s true or not, it doesn’t matter practice saying it out loud.

2:01:57
I know none of you are selfish people. So don’t you don’t have to buy into the belief that you’re selfish. But if that’s the language that they might use about you, don’t be afraid to say it out loud. Any questions? I’ve already taken us over time, I apologize. But here we are chat. Yeah, how about negotiating during lunch or during dinner. You can look anytime you’re you are negotiating during lunch and dinner. And I’m sure you are. Don’t forget your your you know your list. I think I’ve got a list somewhere to draw on Wi Fi. And I’ll go over the list again next week. And you’ll see that some of them we’ve visited a lot. Some of them are fall into the category of a little bit more on the complex side of negotiating and team negotiating and deal making more, but some of them are fundamental through all of them. And do not be afraid of using your mirrors, your labels and your silence and asking no questions and making your laundry list your gripe sheet. use them a lot practice, get good at even those doing all of those, you’re starting to see all kinds of new things open up and a smile onto your face.

2:03:36
So I want to hear some grab sheet content read out by different maybe by each of you, I want you to read out loud one of your gripe sheets, how you would read it out to the other person next week that will require writing in the first place for writing while the other person is talking, so you just have to hope that at least one person does their homework Any other questions. Grace has been very quiet you didn’t used to be quite sort of quiet and taking it in. wouldn’t have been so horrible to have

2:04:40
said no to me. So for anybody other than that you skipped over a few slides will We have a Will you be able to put them in next week? Yeah,

2:05:05
I’ll make sure we’ve got it. I always have more slides than is that there is time for, I mean, to really develop a lot of this stuff it takes, it does take a bit more than what we have time to go over in this in this course. Because there’s the Yeah, we can dig into all kinds of stuff. But that’s that’s when we get to the really mastering negotiation. And it’s an ongoing process. It’s an ongoing process, but I will give you as, as you know, I probably stuffed too much in each week as it is. So I’m trying to pull stuff out rather than stuffing in but I’m not very good at that. My apologies, everybody.

2:05:47
Now, I like the mind map. And I’m gonna go back over the recording and note the mouth a bit more. brick. Okay, I’ll save the night because I am tired. I bet you are badly. Past 3am. So I think I know quite well. All right. Thanks for being here. Yeah. Bye bye.

2:06:18
Okay, so we’ll see you all next week with your Greg sheets. And I’ll be looking forward to hearing you read them out loud. All right. Have a great week, everyone. Yeah. Thanks for joining us. FML FMO. Fa marks My apologies. And see you next week coming along. Oh, actually, I’ll see you later on today, right? Yep, yep. Wonderful. Okay. Bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai